1987 dialogue with Adi Da Samraj
Adi Da Samraj: What’s your problem? You could
serve a lot of people by being honest and saying something
about your long standing problem. You have been one of my
devotees, a close one for many, many years, almost for the
entire period of my Teaching work and you are still unable
to make the first great demonstration and confession
of hearing. What is your report, what do you have to
Apart from what I’ve been saying about your character for
as long as you’ve been in my company your someone who wants
to keep things ‘light’. Underneath that motivation is fear.
But in general, you’re a kind of guy who wants to keep
everyone happy by staying light. You don’t want to get too
heavy, that’s a downer.
Practitioner: The other night when you talked, the
next day I wrote in my diary, something very similar to this
matter. When you were talking about how we don’t want each
other to change, at least not too much.
Adi Da Samraj: You’re like someone telling jokes
at a funeral. You’re over 50 years old, and you still don’t
get it. You’re still doing the same things you’ve always
done. How can you enlighten people relative to this matter
of the first great sign of hearing? Why haven’t you made the
transition to that confession? Why not responsibility, why
refusal of responsibility? What can you say about it that
can serve others and yourself?
Practitioner: I tell you, it’s one of the great
frustrations in my life at the present time because I do see
the refusal. I wish I could I could make it sound more
magnanimous that but the, unfortunately…..
Adi Da Samraj: Magnanimous? Are you kidding
Practitioner: I don’t want to give you any glad
Adi Da Samraj: I’m not asking for glad
affirmations, I asking for a report that may serve others.
Why not yet in your case? That’s my question. What can you
say about that, your already confessed refusal?
Practitioner: Justify it?
Adi Da Samraj: Well, it has to be justified, or
you wouldn’t do it. So, do you have enough self-awareness to
say how you justify your refusal to practice, to move on in
your self-understanding? I mean for all those who just
arrived or for those who are listening from the sidelines,
skeptical about the whole process in general. Do you have
anything to say about it?
Why? Why still? That’s my question. How do you justify
it? It would be useful for others perhaps to hear you say
how you justify it. You do. You wouldn’t do it if you
didn’t’ justify it, you wouldn’t do it. So, that’s what I’m
asking you. To examine yourself and find out, how do you
justify it? What do you use to perpetuate this limit?
Practitioner: By very ordinary means. By always
looking for something to do, to distract myself, entertain
myself. I see how I want to stimulate myself with all sorts
of things. Sometimes important things and sometimes little
things. But I’m beginning to become aware of how much I do
that, how much I avoid feeling anxious, unsatisfied, always
looking for something.
I’m not confessing hearing but it’s more like listening,
in the midst of self-observation.
Adi Da Samraj: Yes, but the observation is then
observing the reality of your own life and your motives. How
you justify the continuation of your conventional
disposition. All the while not getting to the depth of it,
not yet confessing the hearing sign.
Practitioner: Yes, it’s obvious that I’m not
observing to the depth and intensity that you’re talking
Adi Da Samraj: So you don’t allow yourself to be
that impressed, is that it?
Practitioner: Well, I can’t say that.
Adi Da Samraj: You seem to be one of those kind of
characters who seem always to be superficial, not very
profound or very deep. Therefore the dutiful confession of
hearing never gets made.
Practitioner: Yes, I would say that’s true.
Adi Da Samraj: So for you, the motive of
self-fulfillment is still the principle occupation in spite
of your difficulties.
Practitioner: Yes, that’s probably true.
Adi Da Samraj: So, you are still possessed of the,
I might call it an illusion. But let’s say you are still
possessed of the point of view that human existence, bodily
existence, natural existence is purposed for its own sake.
One should, based on identification with the body-mind, be
purposed toward the fulfillment of it, the pressurizing of
it. As if it were immortal, or something existing for its
All one has to do is live a little while and observe a
little bit, one notices that apparently nothing exists for
its own sake. Everything is secondary to the process within
which it appears. Everything is abused and devoured and
limited by the process within which it appears. Nothing is
here for its own sake apparently.
Practitioner: I’ve come in touch with the fact
that life is limited and in some form suffering. But
obviously, there is still a motivation which I believe is
weakened. I don’t seem to understand, to the depth your
Adi Da Samraj: (laughing) Sooner or later, some
time down the line, the jaws of life are going to come upon
you. Right now you’re only interested in fulfilling
yourself, getting by with the present situation.
Practitioner: I have some understanding of that,
but I can’t seem to get to a deeper level of understanding
about my situation. Even though I know it, at some level,
and I might be able to talk about it at some level I can’t
seem to make any change. I hear what you are saying. I can
feel your incredible blessings, and I have the sense that I
exist in a very limited form based on your Presence. But I
seem to be stuck. It’s really frustrating.
I wouldn’t even say it’s fear that’s keep me from feeling
to the depth of it. I don’t know. I don’t know that there is
that there is more to come in touch with. I’ve had glimpses
over the years, many, many times. The seriousness of my
approach certainly doesn’t bear that out.
Adi Da Samraj: So, might we say then that, it’s
not merely that you haven’t been completely impressed by the
inherently suffering nature of conditional existence?
Although you haven’t been completely impressed by that. But
its not merely that. You have not been completely impressed
by your experience or by anyone’s report or sign. You have
not yet been impressed, fully impressed, deeply impressed,
acutely impressed with the reality of that which is beyond
this conditional existence. Since that is your fundamental
position, the fact that there is nothing beyond conditional
existence there is only bodily existence. Since bodily
existence is given in the meantime, the best one can do then
is to try and enjoy it as best one can. Is that it?
Practitioner: Yes. Your absolutely right, Master.
What I was going to say relative to that is that I don’t
denigrate this teaching nor your demonstration.
Adi Da Samraj: It’s not a matter of denigration.
It’s a matter of not receiving it, not accepting it, not
having it become a conversation of one’s point of view.
Practitioner: I think that’s true.
Adi Da Samraj: So, you just have no certainty, no
capacity to become certain significantly about the reports
or signs of any others, at all, including myself and even
the whole report of mankind.
You’re not yet able to accept the inherently suffering
nature of conditional existence, nor are you able to accept
that there is a greater condition to be realized.
Practitioner: That’s probably true.
Adi Da Samraj: Isn’t that more or less the
position of all ordinary people? Of egoity itself for that
matter? Isn’t that precisely it? One apparently is in the
mortal form, psycho-physically manifested, and yes it’s
difficult, but on the other hand, it’s given, and its what
is apparently so. Therefore one is anxious to survive as it,
and to be pressurized as it, and also not capable of being
all that realistic about it, as a limit. In addition, you
don’t seem to have the sense that there is anything greater
to be realized. That there is actually a greater condition,
something more than just being mortal as a body-mind.
Adi Da Samraj: This is the ordinary settlement
isn’t’ it? Isn’t this the characteristic sign of egoity and
of ordinariness, East, West, Omega, Alpha, whatever the
tradition? The human being in his or her ordinariness is
basically stuck with this limited presumption, this
arrangement? And so you, like all other ordinary people, or
like the ‘ego’ altogether are all the time animating,
dramatizing, and confessing this limited arrangement? This
is your survival technique and philosophy?
Practitioner: It is.
Adi Da Samraj: So it never becomes hearing, it
never becomes realization. It never becomes an acceptance of
the inherently limited nature of conditional existence,
because it may be limited, but that’s all you’ve got, and
you’ve got to make the best of it.
Keep it light, then. Try and enjoy yourself. Exploit the
ordinary means, since they’re what’s given. And you can’t be
certain that there’s anything more anyway. Therefore don’t
get too heavy or negative about an interpretation of
existence, such that we may get depressed. So you just go on
and on doing the same thing over, and over again.
Practitioner: I notice I also react to that
realization of life is suffering and so forth. Its almost
the root of my anger and sorrow.
Adi Da Samraj: Right, anger and sorrow.
Practitioner: And then consequently
Adi Da Samraj: But you see the whole matter of
Realization, with its great signs, hearing and then seeing
and identification with the Witness Position and the Perfect
Practice depends on a completely different kind of point of
view awakening. First of all, you must be able to directly
observe and consider and understand that conditional
existence if inherently a limit. It is always frustrated; it
is inherently frustrated. This is one thing you must allow
to be obvious. Because it simply is so, if you would observe
But to do that you must have the freedom in yourself to
allow that perception or realization to awaken. That
understanding to awaken. And then apart from that, you must
also, in order for these great signs to appear, come to the
realization of full heart acceptance, that there is a
greater condition to be realized. It has been realized by
some and can be realized by anyone. And that is the purpose
of existence even in its conditional form.
So, you see, that which becomes realization, shown by the
various great signs I’ve described to you, depends upon a
totally different kind or orientational point of view than
the one you are dramatizing.
You say you’re getting more serious; you’re growing, you
are making use of these great signs. In fact it all the time
remains the same sign, the dramatization or demonstration of
the same point of view that is egoity itself. Making an
arrangement with conditional existence, not able to
completely accept the nature of that which is obvious and
beyond it, which is yet to be Realized. You can’t accept the
reality of unconditional nature, nor can you accept the
reality of the conditional nature.
Your whole life is based on this compromise. Your entire
life. You’re responding in some sense to My Teaching Word,
but not acutely. Certain changes have occurred in your life,
some aspects of your personality are expressing some signs
of seriousness, yes that’s fine. But no fundamental change.
Not year the confession of the first great sign of hearing.
You see, even for that great sign to be confessed for real,
the limited nature of conditional existence must be
confessed, the reality of that which is ultimately to be
Realized must be confessed, as the obvious. It must be
accepted, whole heartedly, embraced, allowed, and it must
become the principle of your life. These two visions, the
inherently limited nature of conditional and the reality of
So you are just making time, just continuing the
compromise. You’ve been in my Company how many years? Too
many! And fundamentally nothing has changed because for the
reasons I’ve just described.
Your way of surviving is to make compromises. You can not
accept the obvious, reality. You will not. Because you are
obsessed with, involuntarily committed to, the superficial
obviousness of the fact of the body-mind. You are
continually making compromises and just trying to make the
best of it. You’re just like everyone else; this is the way
the world works. This is the reason no hearing is
What can be done about it?
Practitioner: I don’t know Master.
Adi Da Samraj: So there really isn’t any growth.
You’re really in a stalemate, you see. You present yourself
as somebody moving along, getting more serious but that’s
not at all what’s happening. Something profound and dramatic
would have to happen for you to grow beyond your current
wheel-spinning, failed-case state. All you are basically
doing at the present time is trying to do is make the best
of your ordinary life, here in this community. You’re
playing the game of the ego, the game of the beginner. The
one who is not able to fully accept the limited nature of
conditional existence. There’s nothing you’re doing
presently, or have done for the past so many years, or in
your whole life for that matter, that is cutting into that
limitation, that dilemma. So, what do you have to do next?
What can be done? Is that just it with you?
Practitioner: I’d like not to believe that, that
it’s just it.
Adi Da Samraj: One thing suggested by this
conversation, is that since you’re compromised, your
ordinary egoic compromise is a matter of not being able to
accept the reality, the limited reality of conditional
existence and not being able to accept the reality of
unconditional existence. One thing you could do if you have
any interest in breaking through this at all, is to address
the conditional reality of your life much more directly and
seriously. On the other hand address the unconditional
reality more directly, at least through the great report of
mankind, the confession of your own Teacher, the signs that
have been shown by your own Teacher, the signs greater than
than have even appeared in your own experience. You can
address these two dimensions, conditional and unconditional,
much more seriously and directly. That seems to be an
obvious proposition, doesn’t it?
Practitioner: I thought of it.
Adi Da Samraj: But if that’s so then well of
course you must do the reality consideration of your own
life. That’s one thing you could do more. Look at your life,
look at the lives of human beings altogether. I’m asking you
why? You’ve had experiences that should awakened you to the
unconditional nature of reality. You have had direct signs
in my Company. All of this is something relative to which
you are immunized? Whey hasn’t it proven itself as reality?
Why won’t your allow it? How can you justify not allowing
Practitioner: It’s certainly a means were I stay
invulnerable to the greater possibility. It’s the refusal to
expose myself to that possibility.
Adi Da Samraj: Yes, but you’re just repeating what
I just said. But why? Isn’t this report Great?
Practitioner: It is. That’s what I started saying,
it’s my adolescent refusal.
Adi Da Samraj: Isn’t’ the inherently limited and
negative nature of conditional existence clear as a report,
as a sign? Isn’t the reality of unconditional existence
clear as a report and as a sign? Then why don’t these two
visions move you? If you can only become intimate with these
two reports and signs, perhaps then there’d be the
possibility of a conversion in you own case, you see, but
the reality in your own case is that you’re unconverted.
That’s the word about it. And you can’t piecemeal this
consideration and expect that progressively you going to
‘hear’ and understand what’s really going on.
You’re immunized against these two reports and signs.
You’re rather unintimate with them. Just as you are rather
unintimate even with your own intimate. You are
disassociated from reality, conditional unconditional. Your
habit of living is a dramatization of dissociation, making
light. It’s non-intimacy.
You are just carrying out your routines, you’ve
ritualized your life. Therefore, it’s not a matter of just
getting more serious, it’s a matter of this intimacy with
both the conditional and the unconditional. This is what you
will not allow.
I’m Here to Regenerate
the Whole Thing
Adi Da Samraj – August
“There wasn’t sufficient evidence,
sufficient response, sufficient clarity. So we’ve had to
examine the whole matter step by step, stage by stage,
starting from the most basic level of the beginning. But I
think in this examination of all of this, with those who
have been associated with me for so long, what is being made
plain is that the gifts and the lessons have been already
given. The only thing lacking here is this Joyous Response,
this Inspired Response, that will regenerate all the things
that were your responsibility before.
I’ve even said to you many times in
these gatherings; it is difficult for me to imagine that
there aren’t at least some in this world-wide gathering who
are prepared for practicing stage six. If they’d only
consider it, go through this process of recapitalization,
reexamination of it all, and embrace their responsibility,
the obligation. I would think that there would be some who
are already prepared for practicing stage six. And
certainly, others prepared for the various devotee
I told you at the beginning when you
all were just being students there, remember, I can’t
imagine after all these years nobody has
In the very beginning of my Teaching
Work, I’ve communicated the Radical Consideration, the
Radical Argument. You must respond to the degree that makes
you capable of radical practice, or the Perfect Practice.
So, I’ve had for many, many years consider with you that
entire progress. But it’s not suppose to be something that
takes you a thousand lifetimes. It’s not a piecemeal
idealism, or idealistic practice, in which you basically
fret over your impulses to be identified with the ordinary
humanity, your conventional motivations as a human
That progressive practice is
supposed to prepare you for the Radical Practice in its
Ultimate form, the Perfect Practice.
The Perfect Practice is practiced in
the context of the sixth stage of life. Therefore it
inherently transcends the sixth stage of life, not
eventually, inherently. It takes place in the context of the
sixth stage of life but transcends it inherently. So do all
the other stages of practice.
The listening and hearing process
inherently transcends the first three stages of life,
inherently does so, when you fully develop it. When it
becomes true hearing, it inherently transcends the first
three stages of life. It’s not that then there’s a long lot
of stuff to do, as a hearing sadhana. It’s direct. The
hearing sadhana inherently transcends the first three stages
of life, so the work becomes complete, readily. This is why
in the first edition of The Dawn Horse Testament have to
define the hearing stage as a separate sort of period.
Because it’s a most direct principle, that allows you to
move on to the devotee stages.
I observed that you were finding
loopholes, and not taking that process completely into
account. I, therefore, I recommended some details that will
help you avoid those loopholes.
Hearing, the sadhana based on
hearing inherently transcends the first three stages of
life, just as the sadhana based on seeing inherently
transcends the fourth stage of life, and the fifth if
necessary, and the sixth. The Way of the Heart transcends
the psycho-biography of the ego, inherently.
Everything from the student response
up to hearing is a process leading up to hearing. Everything
up to hearing if your consideration, your time integrating
yourself with this Radical Way. From the time of the
confession of hearing, you become most fundamentally
obliged, engaged with the Way of the Heart itself. You
become capable of the Way of the Heart itself is capable, of
transcending all of the egoic stages of life. So, from the
time of hearing, you must do so, effectively, as described
in each stage.
In that effective sense, we could
say the Way of the Heart begins at the point of true
hearing. It’s the first of the three great signs. The first
the second is Seeing,
and the third is Identification with the Witness-Position
of Consciousness. Everything
that proceeds hearing is a process whereby the individual
becomes integrated with that process that inherently
transcends eogity. This is why the Hearing Confession is so
profound. It’s the cutter, the foundation that effectively
moves through all the phycho-biography of egoity. From the
time of that confession, you are obliged to that
If you have heard me there is
NO MORE dramatizing your egoic reluctance. You will
have understood it all. You will have thoroughly observed it
all, to the point of most fundamental understanding of self.
Therefore this mechanism of refusal, of balking, resistance
will have been thoroughly understood by you. Most
You must establish a culture on that
foundation. You must demonstrate your response in the form
of that culture. You must all develop an inspired and
inspiring Way, and you must do it collectively, in the
culture and the institution, in both the inner and outer
temple. There must be these signs.
If there aren’t these signs then I
say to you, you haven’t heard me”.
Why Aren’t There Any Enlightened Devotee’s?