DRIFTED IN THE DEEPER LAND
Chapter 3: November 30, 1996
The Meaning Notion.
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Why are there organisms?
And who makes these kinds of decisions anyway?
You are all over the place with mind, so you think
that it is reasonable to expect that you are going to make
some great discoveries in the mind-that you are going to
imagine, expand, and do all kinds of things. But the whole
time the mind is somehow screwed down to an organism that,
when you strip it down, doesnt do anything fancy. It doesnt
look a whole lot different than an adult chimpanzee! [laughter] Do you know what I mean?
Your mind-entertainments are no different from that
poor little animal youre walking around as. [laughter]
Youve sort of glamorized yourselves by association
with the mind. But, actually, youre pretty homely little
pumpkins here-clever apes with some mind-thing that you can
do. You do it in all kinds of ways. The Internet is one of
the latest ways in which human beings have made much of
themselves with mind. Its just like a bunch of chimps
entertaining themselves. None of it is necessarily true.
If you literally took a nation of chimpanzees-a large
area where it is all chimp-land, where they live very
happily and freely and get to do their thing entirely, and
it was so rich a place for them to live in that they could
satisfy their requirements with little expenditure of
effort, such that now they have a lot of time to “consider” the most Contemplative course-would you, even for a moment,
expect that anything that those chimpanzees did for the next
few thousand years would contain the Truth?
Why do you think that it is necessary, then, that
human beings, in their doings, are having anything to do
with the Truth?-or even Reality, which is the same thing. It
could all be bullshit. Every time there is a development,
dimensionally, with a different standpoint relative to
anything at all, what was said or viewed from the previous
standpoint, having been transcended, is no longer anything
but childs play, it seems.
There is no instruction book in here that says that
if you really apply yourself, intelligently and so forth,
everything you think will be true. In other words, you
wouldnt expect chimpanzees to come up with a culture of
Truth, and everything True and Real, and grasping the Laws
of everything. You wouldnt imagine there being much of
anything of the kind produced by chimpanzees even after
50,000 years. Why should you assume that human beings, in
their whatevers altogether, are generating Truth? Maybe it
is just klik-klak manufacturing more variations on
conventions of mind, and then they become matters of
agreement, more or less-and its just variation on
DEVOTEE: Beloved, as were sitting here, I feel You
communicating the Heart-space to us, and how it is the unity
of the body-mind as it is submitted to that Heart-space.
There is a brief pause, and then devotees chuckle in
mutual acknowledgement that they have no idea what Ben
DEVOTEE: It sounded good.
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: You said some words. You used
a technique-a kind of Internet technique, actually.
(Internet has all kinds of forms. Its a very traditional
thing, actually.) In other words, you transmitted a replica
of something that has emotional, mental, or some kind of
content, to others who know some kind of a language. You can
pass it on without us having to even look at one another.
Pretty high-tech. And everybody could rattle all those bits,
with whatever variations, based on slightly different
hearing of whatever, through the pattern, or the mass of
patterns, and then come up with who-knows-what- you -mean to
be what they mean. That is how they will use this
replication. You can add any content to it-just like if you
read a play by Shakespeare, for instance, thats not on the
stage yet, that is just the words. How you put it on the
stage is your business.
So, everybody could wind up with different meanings
from that script, or those words that you just passed on. It
would mean whatever. Who knows what it means to them? Some
conventions thrown in that everybody is supposed to presume
those words mean. Whatever that is. If you asked them, they
probably wouldnt be able to give you a very satisfactory
definition of most things they say.
But, when you said that, you basically expected
everybody here was going to understand what you were
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Is that because you know that
there are some sort of conventions that are mutually agreed
upon? Or do you really think that they will know what you
mean? To know what you mean, there would have to be
something about how you use that language that would lift it
out of all of the automaticities of their meaning boxes. So
they would really get what you mean by not just the words,
but by other means that you are using to convey your meaning
at the moment.
That is why you cant get it all on the Internet.
There are all kinds of things to convey meaning beyond just
the words replicated. There are all kinds of tones of
voice-there are endless things. Plus there are many things
that people are not aware of-the energy level, for instance.
You cant get that on the Internet, entirely. There is just
so much that you can do with just words.
So you have to find some way to communicate whatever
you mean, if it is your meaning you are trying to get them
to understand. If it is just that you are trying to get them
to associate themselves with a bunch of conventions, then
you dont have to stress any part of it. You just let them
have whatever happens with it.
But you sort of expected, right away, that everyone
would know what you mean?
BEN: A mutual experience.
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: But what do you mean when you
mean to yourself that you know what you mean?
When you mean to yourself the meaning notion, then
you expect that everybody here immediately understands what
you are talking about. That is not true at all. It is a
balmy expectation. It is just a skit. And the more removed
people get from direct communication , perhaps the more
likely it is that they are not going to get it very straight
unless you find all kinds of ways to convey your meaning
through all kinds of means that make it more and more clear
or obvious somehow.
You all know one another, and are examples of
familiars to one another. You are familiar with many people
in this room quite well, probably. Do you know a single
person here who, if you spoke to them for a while, made a
transcript, and then printed it out and showed it to them,
could give you a definition for every word in what they said
that was fully satisfactory and a grammatically correct,
meaning considered, fully technical, right understanding of
all of the meaning levels, and so forth? All that? Who would
you trust, of anyone you know?-just generally speaking. In
other words, you dont expect anybody to be like that.
Yet you presume that everybody knows what you mean
when you speak. That is why you are speaking, right? Unless
you are someplace where they dont speak the language or
languages that you speak. Here you feel very comfortable,
because everybody understands English. That is the language
that we are speaking at the moment. So you luxuriate in this
familiarity presumption that everybody knows what you mean.
And what do you mean by that? They know what you mean? They
know what the dictionary says that the words mean? And what
does that mean, anyway?
What is meaning? Somewhere between you and your
words there is meaning-to which you are trying to fit words,
presumably. But where is this meaning dimension? Where do
you “mean” before you think it? Or before you speak it? And
what are the meanings? Are the meanings feelings? Are they
images, at the root of it?
NINA DAVIS: Feelings.
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Your whole domain of “knowing” is, at its root, just feelings? Variations on feeling? How
could it be so full of information?
Apparently it is all conventions. In other words,
its not just plain old hanging up in the sky and you read it
and that is it. So, it is all a play on something that
doesnt necessarily have any arriving at real Reality,
information, Truth, and so forth. That is not guaranteed.
All thats required is that the conventions be suitable for
the individuals or collectives, for them to fulfill the
purposes that they have with one another. So, as long as it
works, that is meaningful enough. But, what does it have to
do with Reality? It is just exchanges of conventions of
mind, exchanges of insides.
Are you there as some mass of meaning, and you just
put it into words, and you really expected what you meant to
be received by everybody here?
ANIELLO PANICO: He did, he absolutely did. He
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: What is the basis for this
belief? It is an absurd presumption. It is definitely not
There are conjunctions, but that doesnt mean that
they are at the level of what people really mean about
anything. And how much of anything do you get across? Most
of what you are trying to do with words is just handle some
very ordinary exchanges and whatnot. It is a convenience,
like a bit of software in your computer. It doesnt have to
have any ultimate Truth in it-it just has to work for
survival purposes and necessary exchanges.
Just how far are you willing to go? Is it sufficient
for you to just be a kind of bio-robotic organism/entity in
among a bunch of similars somehow, and thats that? That is
okay with you? Youre willing to have it just be that
When you go to a zoo, for instance, you see all
kinds of non-humans there. Some of them look very much like
humans-like chimpanzees or gorillas, for instance. When you
see such non-humans, you dont presume that they are anything
more than what they look like. Gorillas are just being “gorilla”. Dogs are just being “dog”. Birds are just being
“bird”. That is what the thing is, and thats that. That is
what you think non-humans are doing. “But humans are more
than that.” [laughter] They are supposed to be
presuming that they are all kinds of great whatever. What
BRIAN OMAHONY: Do animals actually feel the same as
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Well, do you think, in other
words, that they are simply presuming that they are
organisms? That is what you presume about them. Is that what
you presume about yourselves? Are you content with just
that, that youre just organisms?
You know how organisms are. They chug along, who
knows what. In and out. Difficult. Yes, good. No, not so
good. Dead. You know? And that is the end of that!
Hm? Zap! [Beloved Adi Da snaps His fingers] Thats that, Youre content that that is what life is?-so
thats what youre going to do as long as it lasts? Is that
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Are you sure?
AVATAR ADI DA SAMRAJ: Because that is how people
seem. In My experience, this seems to be what people are
doing. If you just look at all that people are up to, with
clarity, just seeing what it is, there would be no reason to
presume about them that they are presuming to be anything
but organisms. In other words, they dont seem any different
than the gorillas in the zoo. The gorillas are gorilla-ing,
zebras are zebra-ing, and humans are human-ing, and thats
that. But they all have all these funny looking asses. All
organisms have funny little asses. [laughter]
I saw a funny button recently, which said, “The
human body was designed by a civil engineer. Who else would
run a toxic waste pipeline right through a recreational
Human beings are doing all kinds of diddly-dat.
Theyve got this inventiveness about making extensions of
themselves-words, all kinds of stuff. That is just what they
do. To a complete outsider who doesnt know their language,
their doings, and so forth, it just sounds like noise. So,
its no different than what you hear among the monkeys, or in
jungles of vast cultures of different species.
So you dont presume that the non-humans are being
anything different than what they look like. You presume
that that is just what they are being. You entirely presume
that, and thats that. But why should it be presumed that
human beings are being anything other than what they
apparently are, what they look like, just that organism? And
then, “Oh, thats the end of that one, its dead.” And thats
the end of that.
What was it when it was alive that you could get so
personal with it, and then its dead and dust? What were you
talking to earlier? Why did you even bother talking to
No matter how big you think, when it comes down to
it, you still have these funny looking asses! So, what is it
all about? What is it for ? Whats it for? And who decides
these kinds of things anyway-you know what I mean? [laughter]
Well, just how profound are you? I mean, are you
really content to be just these short-span organisms, or are
you up to something profound? Because if you are not up to
something profound, then it is enough for you to just be an
organism. That is what youre saying. Every moment in which
you are not exercising yourself most profoundly-and I mean
this in the real religious and Spiritual sense-you are just
consenting to be the plastic process, the mummery of
klik-klak of passing organisms.
(48) How profound are you willing to be about it? How
willing are you to be impressed by the profundity of
existence? Or how content are you to just be part of a
plastic human mummery?
(49) Whats meaningful about what is going on with
anybody? Did Ben convey any meaning of his own, or just spin
through some bytes? They all fit into little pieces of your
little pattern there. Some correspondences, some not.
Somehow, within their own complexity, they relate, so at the
point that that fits into their whatever it is, the rest of
it is just garbage. It doesnt even show up in e-mail. Its
just not received, and you are fooling yourself, in other
(50) Look at all of the presumption that communication is
going on in the Internet. Who is talking to anybody there?
Its just klik-klak. Its just stuff. Its just bits. What is
profound about any of it? Its just stuff. Yes, it is part of
a physical existence. You have to assume responsibilities
there, fine. I am not saying that that is not so. I am
saying that it is just not enough to devote your entire
existence to it.
(51) In other words, you must be occupied with what is
profound. Handle business, fine. Right. But be occupied with
what is profound, always. Never abandon it. Otherwise, you
are just consenting to be some temporary bit of plastic.
Push it in the slot every day, and it usually lights up.
Sometimes a little dimmer, sometimes a little brighter,
sometimes a little dimmer. But then one day you put it in
and it rejects. Something comes up on the screen that says
it is no longer applicable, “This card has been cancelled,”
or something. “This account is empty.” And thats that.
(52) What was so meaningful about any of it, if thats
that? Where in all of this are you a “you”, in any case?
Where in all of this are you participating in something
profound? Or is it just the local chatter, the organisms
hanging out in the woods, the jungle of mind, not really
significant or meaningful beyond just the chatter of
ordinary survival and interferences with it, at least with
the pleasure of it. It is not all that pleasurable anyway.
There are some pleasures, but, no matter what you do, it
wears you out somehow, you know what I mean? [Beloved
snaps His fingers and laughs.]
(53) It doesnt get stronger and stronger. It has a kind
of built-in obsolescence. It doesnt look like nature cares
about whether you live or die, otherwise youd be living a
lot longer, or bigger, or happier-none of this
(54) The day that you first stepped up there to put your
ticket in, you should have noticed the situation and asked a
few questions. If you can just be here, and playfully do or
seem to be anything, within a certain range of limitations,
and then, after a certain length of time, [Beloved snaps
His fingers again] thats the end of it, then what kind
of an interesting thing is that? That doesnt sound good.
(55) So, it isnt any good. It is not sufficient in and of
itself. And if its not, then its just an aspect of pattern
with which you are mysteriously associated and you have to
handle business relative to it, in some basic sense. But you
cant be so preoccupied with that level of it that you give
up your heart, give up your existence, give up the
(56) Just because you are alive doesnt mean that you are
profound, or that life is profound. And just because you are
alive doesnt mean that you are doing what is right, or right
and free, or rightly disposed, or up to anything of
significance at all-other than just rattling through, being
part of a squeeze, the digestive system of the universe. You
start up on the table and you wind up in the sewer.
(57) I am Drawing you into this profundity, whereas you
all seem to be up to the forgetting of it. You are already
full of the signs of having completely forgotten
it-certainly from the looks of mankind as a whole.
(58) I dont have much experience of people who are moved
to anything but the ordinary organism business as mankind
does it. In other words, people are, in general, not up to
anything very profound. You seem readily to consent to not
be profound, to have life not be profound. There is so much
obligation, business, practicalities-with the body, whatever
relations, making a living, on and on. You always have some
excuse, some reason why you can only be this organism
process, with all the costumes and words that people make or
(59) The language is talking to itself through exchanges
between many, many terminals. Nobody is originating it.
Someone maybe modifies it a little bit, but then there are
many other modifiers, more conventions develop, and then
they get repeated-the latest changes, variations come again.
You see how it works?
(60) Well, human beings function like bio-computers, with
all of this software of meanings and so on. But where are
the meanings? The meanings arent transmitted. It is the
klik-klak. How does what I say, just like I am doing right
now, become words for you? In your mind? Where? Your mind?
Whats “yours” about it?
(61) Do you really convey meanings, generally speaking,
with your communications, your words? Or is it just meaning
process happening, more or less, by itself, and enforcing
conventions? Thousands of little details every day are
handled without even a thought, as people say. There are all
kinds of babble and gestures and whatnot that are there just
for collective survival purposes and so forth-that are
supposed to be done without a thought. You handle countless
details every day that way. It is a process. What is “you”
about it? It is vastly complex. Where is the “you” in it? It
is a system of complexities of all kinds.
(62) It is not so much that an individual is expressing
meanings. The “individual” is just a terminal of a process
of exchanging meanings. But meaning in what sense? Where is
the meaning part? The words just get moved along and
everybody got clicked in association with it. It means
whatever you want it to mean. Whatever you feel the force of
convention suggests it means. But where is the meaning part?
How does meaning get conveyed?
(63) You presume others know what you mean. Thats why you
dont have to convey the meaning to them. Or perhaps this is
where you make your mistake-because it is the meaning that
you are not bothering to convey to them. You are giving them
the replica and expecting them to get the meaning that you
mean. And it doesnt really altogether amount to what gets
across anyway. But it is all this “blah-blah-blah” going on
between the organisms here, with lots of others all over the
place. What is it for?
(64) I mean these organisms are just here, so at some
level, yes, you do some basic things for survival. But
theres a lot more going on. What is all of this complex look
and manner and doings and thoughts? What is all this for? It
is not just pattern patterning more. It is building on past
patterns and getting more complex, varying it, certainly.
Yet it seems there are some persistent basics in there. Are
they really conveyed or are they just in tiny little waves
along the way, eventually changed in their meaning because
the discourse changes and interprets things differently and
(65) There is no fixity in any of it. It is the language
speaking to itself. Everything is passed about that way. You
are just an organism, a terminal in this exchange of
nonsense, basically. You say, “Were organisms now, well make
the best of it”?
(66) And yet, in truth, nobody wants to be superficial.
Everybody wants to be deep.
(67) Understand this.
(68) It doesnt feel good to be superficial. The
chameleons dont like it. In other words, they dont get this
message that you all are apparently getting. They know
inherently, it seems, that there is a depth that is the Well
of Being, and just to be this fleshy organism guy out here
in the elements is not enough. It is not good. It cant be
accepted just as that, just “thats that”. The depth isnt
forgotten. Theres a depth deeper than sleep. Theres the
depth that is beyond self.
(69) My address to you at the beginning of the process in
My Company is to you as a seeker. This is the key to
understanding-this matter of you being a seeker, not one who
has found, merely. Even if you have come to Me as My
devotee, that doesnt mean that you vanished all of your
seeking signs. The root of your un-Enlightenment hasnt
vanished. It is a process you have entered into. It is not
about mere belief. It is about the exercise of profundity,
always going beyond.
(70) What is really interesting to talk about with people
is what goes on in meditation, because that is on the other
side of all the clothing, all the social personality stuff.
If youve got some reason to talk about that stuff, to handle
business or whatever, or just be amusing with one another,
fine, you can talk about it. But basically, that is not
whats interesting. Thats the washing machine, all that
life-business. What is interesting is this in-depth process.
Thats the interesting thing to do in the most profound
sense. It is the going-beyond process there, not merely the
experiential process. The experiential process, the signs in
it, yes, that may be interesting. But the signs of depth,
the signs in the depth, the signs for the depth-this is what
is truly interesting. That is the essence of all that is
(71) You are defined by your search. You are always
getting a destiny that is something about that, positive or
negative. To transcend the seeker, to be in every moment
transcending self-contraction directly, is a kind of a
generator of a transformed existence, because it is not
patterned by the seeker any longer, or the purification of
the seeker has become an in-depth process-deeper than sleep.
The pattern of the seeker is no longer necessary, so all
kinds of changes occur quite readily when you are living the
disposition of directly transcending the seeker at the heart
point, at the origin of that whole seekers pattern, moment
to moment. This allows you to grant even greater integrity
to your life, and greater depth.
(72) The only thing thats really interesting is getting
deeper than your mind presently is. Thats why old habits are
all boring. Its whats already boring you. Its the reason you
are bored. Thats what makes you want to seek-the tension of
dissatisfaction with what youre already associated with.
(73) The first thing the non-humans do in their
Contemplation is get deeper than body-consciousness. They
dont think its un-cool. Theyre not merely comfortable with
physically existing. They demonstrate spontaneously that it
is right disposition to notice that confinement to mortal,
physical embodiment is inherently unsatisfactory,
uncomfortable-inherently. So theyre not going to buy
anything about only being in that condition and nothing
else. They know that merely to be that is unsatisfactory, so
they spontaneously drop into depth. Their sign is naturally
the one of depth being the Core of existence, not the
(74) Everything has to come from the center outward, from
the depth outward. So you have to devote your life to this
depth, to this process in depth, to want to be in that
depth-that is, to be in the Zone of Happiness.
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