Beezone Interview with Julie Anderson
(Formerly Kanya Samarpana Remembrance)
The following interview was originally published in 2018. It marks the beginning of Beezone’s republication of the original interview series with Julie Anderson, making these conversations available once again to a new audience.
Julie Anderson, 2024
“Just keep having all those experiences”
Beezone: Could you talk a little about what it was like when you first saw or sat with Adi Da?
Julie: The first time I sat with him was in a darshan occasion in Western Face Cathedral, one of the meditation Halls at The Mountain of Attention Sanctuary in Northern California. I sat at the back of the hall, to his right. Not knowing what to expect or what to do, it was confronting. Immediately, however, my thinking and questioning mind was stopped as my vision became blurred and I could not focus very well. In this, I began to see Adi Da’s form change shape and take on what appeared to me to be various traditional and archetypal forms of great, ancient spiritual figures. With this ever-changing view, my physical form also began to feel quite unfamiliar and amorphous, not very well able to locate a position within it. It was not as pleasurable, as the shifting changes felt like they were stretching me beyond comfort. But I do remember feeling that this seemed significant in the sense that what I was seeing and feeling may be telling me something about him and his presence.
The second time I saw him was in what we called the King’s Room. It was a room beneath what was then used as the kitchen. So the room had no windows except by the front glass double-door entrance; there was a large floor-to-ceiling window. It felt like being underground, as the walls were formed by a kind of rock and the carpet was a deep maroon. In the middle of the room was a pool table! I thought that was rather funny! I sat on the floor at the edge of the room. On this occasion, those gathered were enjoying what we called occasional accessories to the diet: beer and cigarettes. So I was a bit intoxicated. When Adi Da walked into the room, he was wearing a bright yellow silk shirt of a design I was not familiar with. I was awe-struck by the magnitude of his presence and form, his smile and laugh. I thought he was incredibly handsome, in an unusual way! I watched him playfully engage others at a game of pool. I noted he had fun stretching the rules. When he unexpectedly came over to me he still had the pool cue in his right hand. He quite firmly placed the tip of the pool cue onto the top of my right foot, close to my big toe, saying So you are September toes! I thought you would be a lot taller! He then went back to his pool playing. I became very sick and nauseous after that and had to leave the gathering. Many many years later he gave me the tip of the pool cue to place on my mala as a talisman.
The next day I spent time with some female devotees, one of whom spoke in detail with me, as she heard I was asking a number of questions about Adi Da and about the women who were around him and attending to him in various ways; this intrigued me. I noticed one woman fanning him for the longest time, and I wondered how she could do that without getting a real sore arm! (laughing) After this, together with some of the same female devotees I was asking about, we prepared to go and attend a gathering at what was then called the house, his home.
We settled in his home, also called the Manner of Flowers, in his living room. His low seat was placed in the back far right corner of the rectangular room. There were a number of devotees who were sitting facing him, spread out about the space. I sat cross-legged on the floor right in front of him, close so we could talk. There was soft music playing, and the air smelled of sweet incense. My whole body was shaking, as though I had an incredible fever, chills or something. I was embarrassed as I could not stop the shaking and also could not speak very well because of this unusually strong movement. After a while, he stood up and went into his bedroom. Soon he came out with one of his shawls. He stood behind me and wrapped the shawl around me and crossed it over the front of me, and as soon as he did that, my whole body relaxed and .phew. A blissful ease came over me. I can feel it now. I just dropped altogether. Then he went around in front of me and sat down in his chair, and he looked at me, and he said: “You are an extremely old soul; you have no more work to do. It’s time for you to just rest.” I had no clue what that meant or why he said that. Then I saw visibly tangible threads of light connecting me to him above and at heart.
Beezone: From a yogic point of view I find that fascinating. The way I would describe that was that you left the body, and he sensed your deeper personality. I’m reading it, of course; I don’t know for sure, but I find it interesting. You were shaking because of the Shakti force and freezing because you had left the body; the life force was leaving the body. He then put his shawl around you to warm you, bring you back, and associate with the body. As all this was occurring, you had drifted into your deeper personality, the old soul. You may have had past associations with awakened beings in the past since you just don’t ‘wander’ into the Company of a Mahasiddha, I’m guessing.
Julie: You could surmise that, but I don’t know for sure anything about that in detail. At this point in time, none of that rumoring is of interest to me, as it makes no difference regarding the depth process of radical understanding. It can be fascinating and interesting to look into or know these things, but it does not sustain my interest much and has not much in the past either. However, Adi Da has made indications to me at times of previous incarnations and connections to him. That is a whole other subject!
The other thing that happened, indicating to me there was an obvious deep feeling connection between us, was the experience of being in the light together. We were in the light, the light of the head, the light in the heart, and the light above. Then I kept having spontaneous shifts in my vision where I would be up in the corner of the room looking at him, or I would see him from a different point of view altogether. In other words, my ability to be able to see him as he was in front of me was not possible anymore because my point of view kept shifting. It was like seeing him from different perspectives in brief, quick flashes. I didn’t have any idea what was happening. Then at some point, I started describing to him what was happening, and he got a big kick out of that. With a huge belly laugh, he said: “Yep, just keep having all those experiences!” He thought it was funny. Why? I had no real idea and felt a bit silly having said anything at all. Still, many unusual and unfamiliar visions and sensations continued as I sat there. I now understand that these experiences were a yogic awakening beyond my mere gross egoic perspective, his direct shaktipat.
Beezone: Clearly, one thing you are describing is an ‘out of body experience.’ It seems by your nature you probably have a strong predisposition to be in high states of consciousness or Samadhis of various kinds. I guess that’s the ‘old soul’ reference.
Julie: Maybe, but ‘out of the body experiences’ were familiar to me as I had had these on various occasions my whole life, and especially so when I was anorexic. These energies and sensations felt a bit different actually. It is interesting that you would say that though, because at some point after many years of sadhana he told me that my issues were not in the higher stages but that they were in the lower (laughter)! In other words, once I got beyond this emotional-sexual matter, then the rest of it wasn’t going to be a big deal. He said to me in teasing, I was prone toward having psychic experiences, deep meditations, visions and yogic phenomena, khachari mudra (as I told you of), and Samadhis of various kinds. However, he said that my real work was in the red-yellow realm, the lower chakras. I would say that could likely be so for us all who gravitated here, yet some may have previously had more experiences of a ‘higher’ nature. But again, these experiences are not the point in the context of the unique awakening he has initiated and secured for all.
But then there is the samadhi of the thumbs. This yogic sign is specific to his transmission, his full descent. This has occurred often and still does. One of the things about the samadhi of the thumbs is that at a certain point it became apparent to me that this yogic event is perpetual in essence. It’s not just an independent event as it may seem because it appears to the end. Rather, it is an indicator of a profound shift in point of view, eventually awakening us as the witness consciousness, in the room of unlimited and all-inclusive conscious light.
During the time in his direct company and since then there are many ways that I could register the divine manifesting in relationship to the chakras and the psycho-physical being as various kinds of samadhis, at all different levels of existence, but that phenomenon does not mean true liberation or realization of reality itself, as Adi Da reveals it. Yes, yogic experiences can correspond and be coincident with feelings of significant bliss and a sense of liberation. Such events can also seemingly alter your point of view dramatically, and then you can begin to exist awake to different aspects of the manifest realms, yet in some fashion still disassociated from reality as the divine truth. This is because most of these experiences or samadhis cannot be maintained except through the manipulation of the mechanism of attention. In other words, I was still active as an ego-I. It is not divine self-recognition, in which there is no separation at all from any apparent arising condition in and as the divine light. This is what Adi Da�s shaktipat has revealed to me. I am sure many devotees can express such an understanding.
He said very, very strongly to me at one point in the early 2000s, “Do not apply any meaning to any of these experiences that you have.” This served me immensely. He said, “Don’t!” because you are getting too caught up in them. I think this predisposition for absorbed states is tied to my tendency or addiction to doing yoga, puja, and ritual, and as time went on, a preference for meditation and spending A LOT of time in sacred halls and holy sites and his house. He also had to tell me to stop hiding out in his house. I immensely enjoyed engaging all devotional practices and serving sacred spaces, once I adapted.
It was not always that way, though. The first time I sat for a formally extended meditation it was so excruciatingly painful at all levels of the being that I came out and said to another male devotee; I never want to do that again! And so it was, I was given the task of cleaning Adi Da’s bedroom and bathroom during the time he went to sit instead of going to meditate with him and the others! (laughing)
Beezone: You are reminding me of a ‘Mast,’ a particular kind of person in India who walks around absorbed in higher states of consciousness. Meher Baba would send his devotees out to collect such individuals, bring them back to his ashram, and Meher Baba would then wash them, clean them up, give them food, and try to serve them in any way he could. I’m not calling you a Mast, but you are describing a predisposition to be absorbed in ecstatic states. Anandamayi Ma was another such person. Although a saint to her devotees, she would be absorbed in Bliss to such a degree that they would have to feed her to keep her alive.
Julie: In later years, I think that is why Adi Da let me spend a lot of time in the hall. Also maybe just to keep me out of trouble and out of his hair! (laughing) I spent a lot of time in the meditation hall and in doing puja in sacred environments. That is where I preferred to be.
One thing Adi Da had been pointing out to me was I had became addicted to living and enacting puja, or the sacred yoga of ritual worship and invocation. I had altars everywhere, and I did puja almost anywhere in relationship to everything, all the time. I liked (and still do) living a life in sacred spaces, be it a holy site, temple or meditation hall because that is what I spent a lot of time doing all the years within the gurukula with him. I grew accustomed to having my environment feel that way and because that is what I like the most sacred spaces. There was just a certain point in time where I felt like it had become an addiction, became an almost neurotic obsession, my need to do ritual, to do puja, to have an objective form of invocation, involved in some process that was continually being enacted over and over again.
Finally sometime around 2010, I let it all go, completely let it go. Let go of chanting, puja, formal meditation all of that, even study! I burned some things even. Of course in a ritual fire! (laughing) In this release, an even greater purification began. The most difficult ever. As time went on the interesting thing is that in doing so I also then received the affirmation that the real depth process could not be lost, even as I ceased to engage such things. It was always happening; it was always alive. Of course! This is the reality of the Divine process, his work. Reality IS. The light is the context, always infiltrating, modulating. I exist in and as conscious self-light. The gift of recognition was more deeply and clearly and consistently active. Synchronously I have to participate in it, like it. If you consciously participate in and as this conscious love-light, you see everything, the fence, the tree, the skies, and the walls, all others as light. It is all one space. You see everything as the Divine self, as the Divine light, as the spiritual process. So there was a level of trust that came about through the noticing that this was always being proven to me. Beyond my self-effort, it was being proven to me.
That has been going on for quite a long time and being magnified. It is always amazing to me because revelations are being given, insights are being offered effortlessly. I feel abundantly blessed in my life, not without difficulties. It’s still difficult. Life is an ordeal, a really difficult ordeal. I now read the teaching again at times and feel the process of the teaching active in me; the fundamental argument about Narcissus is in-depth and clear. I also sit in a small hall we have curtained off, and a deep reception of Love-Ananda (Love-Bliss) is immediate. The sphere of conscious light is the obvious context and point of view by the fact that I have been awakened into this yoga and practiced darshan yoga, samrajasana for so long, understood fundamental errors, and then the fear of loss and separation has been significantly dissolved.
Now that being said, there is no question whatsoever that if I were to practice again formally, not only potentially as part of the culture of Adidam, but the more that I choose to participate in relationship and engage the detailed practices and processes as given by Adi Da, then this radical understanding and Satsang becomes magnified. It is in this context it is truly tested, especially with others genuinely reflecting the true growth of the process. This is invaluable and necessary for further growth. It quickens and intensifies my awareness of the spiritual reality, as conscious light.
Adi Da Samraj, No Remedy, 1975
Beezone: Wasn’t that what you were doing for all the years when you were in his immediate sphere?
Julie: Yes, but there was more to understand. A lot of what occurred during and after the time of leaving his physical company was relinquishing the kind of formalities, but also familiarity with what I had enacted with him. A much deeper understanding of the errors of what I was doing with him and all others. It was a process revealing; it is not this, not this, not this, not this. All of this has been based on the free gift of the seventh stage feeling awareness of divine reality given from the beginning of the relationship. I made many mistakes, errors. I was doing this wrong. I was relating to him wrongly. I was practicing, meditating, serving, and somehow “how could I so consistently be missing the most fundamental context of the relationship, the essence of being, beyond the error of attention, the room of unqualified light, Divine self-realization and recognition”?
You know how it is whenever you pick up any sacred text, and so it is with Adi Da’s teaching: you pick it up, and if it’s true dharma, it is alive as spirit; always something new is being revealed. You could read the same thing over and over again, and until there has been enough purification of the binding of energy and attention into an error, into the process of seeking or based upon the egoic error of self-identification with the manifest conditions arising, you’re not going to get it fully. You’re not going to fully understand the point of what is being stated or revealed. That is how it feels with Adi Da’s work and teaching. So it continues!
Beezone: You sound like you have learned a tremendous amount from the post years as much as you have in the years you were in his company. There are lessons for everybody of course and the disparity between being a Siddha of his magnitude and the blessing force that can sublime you into samadhi and then being thrown or put into a situation that you’re taking the tram or the bus somewhere in a downtown city trying to scrape up lunch money, I couldn’t think of anything more dramatically opposite than those two scenarios that you have had to go through. There are not many people who have been in your many, many different environments.
Julie: Exactly. (laughter) And that makes me humble and grateful.
Beezone: But you’ve got the freedom and the wisdom. You’ve learned and been blessed. Everybody has their station in life and doing whatever they do, but that is entirely secondary, completely beside the point. Whatever it is, it is. But the deeper personality and the deeper messages are there, and that is why when you say the people who have been touched may forget but they can never, ever get away from the Eternal Process.
Julie: So true. The Truth.
A Note from Julie
Blessings! I am making this communication via Beezone as a means to explore, remember, understand more deeply, and make available the story of my life with Bhagavan Adi Da. It’s a deep samyama for me, and I am grateful to Ed Reither for this auspicious opportunity and how this gift has come into being.
Coincidentally, my communication may be useful to you, the reader, in providing a means to reflect on your own life experiences with Adi Da or in relationship to your own spiritual practice and life adventure.
Given I am not currently a formal practitioner of Adidam, my communication is a personal one, and it is not intended specifically to be a guide to anyone’s spiritual and life practice. Adi Da has made it abundantly clear that if anyone is serious about His Teaching, they should embrace the full details of practice which He has clearly communicated. Any response made or opinion formed in regard to his offering is a personal matter of responsible free choice.
Whilst I am very serious about my transcendentally spiritual relationship with Adi Da, for some time and for now, I have not chosen to embrace the full details of His Instruction regarding participation within the formal Institution and Culture of Adidam. This is a personal matter and not a reflection about anything otherwise. There are no “sides” of any camp that I sit within. My heart is filled with great respect, gratitude and profound loving compassion for all devotees that I share a history with.
Om Sri Da Love Ananda
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