Why Not Hearing After All These Years? – A dialogue with Adi Da Samraj – 1987


Why No ‘Hearing’ After all These Years?

unpublished 1987 dialogue with Adi Da Samraj



Adi Da Samraj: What’s your problem? You could serve a lot of people by being honest and saying something about your long standing problem. You have been one of my devotees, a close one for many, many years, almost for the entire period of my Teaching work and you are still unable to make the first great demonstration and confession of hearing. What is your report, what do you have to say?

Apart from what I’ve been saying about your character for as long as you’ve been in my company your someone who wants to keep things ‘light’. Underneath that motivation is fear. But in general, you’re a kind of guy who wants to keep everyone happy by staying light. You don’t want to get too heavy, that’s a downer.

Practitioner: The other night when you talked, the next day I wrote in my diary, something very similar to this matter. When you were talking about how we don’t want each other to change, at least not too much.

Adi Da Samraj: You’re like someone telling jokes at a funeral. You’re over 50 years old, and you still don’t get it. You’re still doing the same things you’ve always done. How can you enlighten people relative to this matter of the first great sign of hearing? Why haven’t you made the transition to that confession? Why not responsibility, why refusal of responsibility? What can you say about it that can serve others and yourself?

Practitioner: I tell you, it’s one of the great frustrations in my life at the present time because I do see the refusal. I wish I could I could make it sound more magnanimous that but the, unfortunately…..

Adi Da Samraj: Magnanimous? Are you kidding me?

Practitioner: I don’t want to give you any glad affirmations here?

Adi Da Samraj: I’m not asking for glad affirmations, I asking for a report that may serve others. Why not yet in your case? That’s my question. What can you say about that, your already confessed refusal?

Practitioner: Justify it?

Adi Da Samraj: Well, it has to be justified, or you wouldn’t do it. So, do you have enough self-awareness to say how you justify your refusal to practice, to move on in your self-understanding? I mean for all those who just arrived or for those who are listening from the sidelines, skeptical about the whole process in general. Do you have anything to say about it?

Why? Why still? That’s my question. How do you justify it? It would be useful for others perhaps to hear you say how you justify it. You do. You wouldn’t do it if you didn’t’ justify it, you wouldn’t do it. So, that’s what I’m asking you. To examine yourself and find out, how do you justify it? What do you use to perpetuate this limit?

Practitioner: By very ordinary means. By always looking for something to do, to distract myself, entertain myself. I see how I want to stimulate myself with all sorts of things. Sometimes important things and sometimes little things. But I’m beginning to become aware of how much I do that, how much I avoid feeling anxious, unsatisfied, always looking for something.

I’m not confessing hearing but it’s more like listening, in the midst of self-observation.

Adi Da Samraj: Yes, but the observation is then observing the reality of your own life and your motives. How you justify the continuation of your conventional disposition. All the while not getting to the depth of it, not yet confessing the hearing sign.

Practitioner: Yes, it’s obvious that I’m not observing to the depth and intensity that you’re talking about.

Adi Da Samraj: So you don’t allow yourself to be that impressed, is that it?

Practitioner: Well, I can’t say that.

Adi Da Samraj: You seem to be one of those kind of characters who seem always to be superficial, not very profound or very deep. Therefore the dutiful confession of hearing never gets made.

Practitioner: Yes, I would say that’s true.

Adi Da Samraj: So for you, the motive of self-fulfillment is still the principle occupation in spite of your difficulties.

Practitioner: Yes, that’s probably true.

Adi Da Samraj: So, you are still possessed of the, I might call it an illusion. But let’s say you are still possessed of the point of view that human existence, bodily existence, natural existence is purposed for its own sake. One should, based on identification with the body-mind, be purposed toward the fulfillment of it, the pressurizing of it. As if it were immortal, or something existing for its own sake.

All one has to do is live a little while and observe a little bit, one notices that apparently nothing exists for its own sake. Everything is secondary to the process within which it appears. Everything is abused and devoured and limited by the process within which it appears. Nothing is here for its own sake apparently.

Practitioner: I’ve come in touch with the fact that life is limited and in some form suffering. But obviously, there is still a motivation which I believe is weakened. I don’t seem to understand, to the depth your pointing to.

Adi Da Samraj: (laughing) Sooner or later, some time down the line, the jaws of life are going to come upon you. Right now you’re only interested in fulfilling yourself, getting by with the present situation.

Practitioner: I have some understanding of that, but I can’t seem to get to a deeper level of understanding about my situation. Even though I know it, at some level, and I might be able to talk about it at some level I can’t seem to make any change. I hear what you are saying. I can feel your incredible blessings, and I have the sense that I exist in a very limited form based on your Presence. But I seem to be stuck. It’s really frustrating.

I wouldn’t even say it’s fear that’s keep me from feeling to the depth of it. I don’t know. I don’t know that there is that there is more to come in touch with. I’ve had glimpses over the years, many, many times. The seriousness of my approach certainly doesn’t bear that out.

Adi Da Samraj: So, might we say then that, it’s not merely that you haven’t been completely impressed by the inherently suffering nature of conditional existence? Although you haven’t been completely impressed by that. But its not merely that. You have not been completely impressed by your experience or by anyone’s report or sign. You have not yet been impressed, fully impressed, deeply impressed, acutely impressed with the reality of that which is beyond this conditional existence. Since that is your fundamental position, the fact that there is nothing beyond conditional existence there is only bodily existence. Since bodily existence is given in the meantime, the best one can do then is to try and enjoy it as best one can. Is that it?

Practitioner: Yes. Your absolutely right, Master. What I was going to say relative to that is that I don’t denigrate this teaching nor your demonstration.

Adi Da Samraj: It’s not a matter of denigration. It’s a matter of not receiving it, not accepting it, not having it become a conversation of one’s point of view.

Practitioner: I think that’s true.

Adi Da Samraj: So, you just have no certainty, no capacity to become certain significantly about the reports or signs of any others, at all, including myself and even the whole report of mankind.

You’re not yet able to accept the inherently suffering nature of conditional existence, nor are you able to accept that there is a greater condition to be realized.

Practitioner: That’s probably true.

Adi Da Samraj: Isn’t that more or less the position of all ordinary people? Of egoity itself for that matter? Isn’t that precisely it? One apparently is in the mortal form, psycho-physically manifested, and yes it’s difficult, but on the other hand, it’s given, and its what is apparently so. Therefore one is anxious to survive as it, and to be pressurized as it, and also not capable of being all that realistic about it, as a limit. In addition, you don’t seem to have the sense that there is anything greater to be realized. That there is actually a greater condition, something more than just being mortal as a body-mind.

Practitioner: Right.

Adi Da Samraj: This is the ordinary settlement isn’t’ it? Isn’t this the characteristic sign of egoity and of ordinariness, East, West, Omega, Alpha, whatever the tradition? The human being in his or her ordinariness is basically stuck with this limited presumption, this arrangement? And so you, like all other ordinary people, or like the ‘ego’ altogether are all the time animating, dramatizing, and confessing this limited arrangement? This is your survival technique and philosophy?

Practitioner: It is.

Adi Da Samraj: So it never becomes hearing, it never becomes realization. It never becomes an acceptance of the inherently limited nature of conditional existence, because it may be limited, but that’s all you’ve got, and you’ve got to make the best of it.

Keep it light, then. Try and enjoy yourself. Exploit the ordinary means, since they’re what’s given. And you can’t be certain that there’s anything more anyway. Therefore don’t get too heavy or negative about an interpretation of existence, such that we may get depressed. So you just go on and on doing the same thing over, and over again.

Practitioner: I notice I also react to that realization of life is suffering and so forth. Its almost the root of my anger and sorrow.

Adi Da Samraj: Right, anger and sorrow.

Practitioner: And then consequently reactivity.

Adi Da Samraj: But you see the whole matter of Realization, with its great signs, hearing and then seeing and identification with the Witness Position and the Perfect Practice depends on a completely different kind of point of view awakening. First of all, you must be able to directly observe and consider and understand that conditional existence if inherently a limit. It is always frustrated; it is inherently frustrated. This is one thing you must allow to be obvious. Because it simply is so, if you would observe conditional existence.

But to do that you must have the freedom in yourself to allow that perception or realization to awaken. That understanding to awaken. And then apart from that, you must also, in order for these great signs to appear, come to the realization of full heart acceptance, that there is a greater condition to be realized. It has been realized by some and can be realized by anyone. And that is the purpose of existence even in its conditional form.

So, you see, that which becomes realization, shown by the various great signs I’ve described to you, depends upon a totally different kind or orientational point of view than the one you are dramatizing.

You say you’re getting more serious; you’re growing, you are making use of these great signs. In fact it all the time remains the same sign, the dramatization or demonstration of the same point of view that is egoity itself. Making an arrangement with conditional existence, not able to completely accept the nature of that which is obvious and beyond it, which is yet to be Realized. You can’t accept the reality of unconditional nature, nor can you accept the reality of the conditional nature.

Your whole life is based on this compromise. Your entire life. You’re responding in some sense to My Teaching Word, but not acutely. Certain changes have occurred in your life, some aspects of your personality are expressing some signs of seriousness, yes that’s fine. But no fundamental change. Not year the confession of the first great sign of hearing. You see, even for that great sign to be confessed for real, the limited nature of conditional existence must be confessed, the reality of that which is ultimately to be Realized must be confessed, as the obvious. It must be accepted, whole heartedly, embraced, allowed, and it must become the principle of your life. These two visions, the inherently limited nature of conditional and the reality of the unconditional.

So you are just making time, just continuing the compromise. You’ve been in my Company how many years? Too many! And fundamentally nothing has changed because for the reasons I’ve just described.

Your way of surviving is to make compromises. You can not accept the obvious, reality. You will not. Because you are obsessed with, involuntarily committed to, the superficial obviousness of the fact of the body-mind. You are continually making compromises and just trying to make the best of it. You’re just like everyone else; this is the way the world works. This is the reason no hearing is confessed.

What can be done about it?

Practitioner: I don’t know Master.

Adi Da Samraj: So there really isn’t any growth. You’re really in a stalemate, you see. You present yourself as somebody moving along, getting more serious but that’s not at all what’s happening. Something profound and dramatic would have to happen for you to grow beyond your current wheel-spinning, failed-case state. All you are basically doing at the present time is trying to do is make the best of your ordinary life, here in this community. You’re playing the game of the ego, the game of the beginner. The one who is not able to fully accept the limited nature of conditional existence. There’s nothing you’re doing presently, or have done for the past so many years, or in your whole life for that matter, that is cutting into that limitation, that dilemma. So, what do you have to do next? What can be done? Is that just it with you?

Practitioner: I’d like not to believe that, that it’s just it.

Adi Da Samraj: One thing suggested by this conversation, is that since you’re compromised, your ordinary egoic compromise is a matter of not being able to accept the reality, the limited reality of conditional existence and not being able to accept the reality of unconditional existence. One thing you could do if you have any interest in breaking through this at all, is to address the conditional reality of your life much more directly and seriously. On the other hand address the unconditional reality more directly, at least through the great report of mankind, the confession of your own Teacher, the signs that have been shown by your own Teacher, the signs greater than than have even appeared in your own experience. You can address these two dimensions, conditional and unconditional, much more seriously and directly. That seems to be an obvious proposition, doesn’t it?

Practitioner: I thought of it.

Adi Da Samraj: But if that’s so then well of course you must do the reality consideration of your own life. That’s one thing you could do more. Look at your life, look at the lives of human beings altogether. I’m asking you why? You’ve had experiences that should awakened you to the unconditional nature of reality. You have had direct signs in my Company. All of this is something relative to which you are immunized? Whey hasn’t it proven itself as reality? Why won’t your allow it? How can you justify not allowing it?

Practitioner: It’s certainly a means were I stay invulnerable to the greater possibility. It’s the refusal to expose myself to that possibility.

Adi Da Samraj: Yes, but you’re just repeating what I just said. But why? Isn’t this report Great?

Practitioner: It is. That’s what I started saying, it’s my adolescent refusal.

Adi Da Samraj: Isn’t’ the inherently limited and negative nature of conditional existence clear as a report, as a sign? Isn’t the reality of unconditional existence clear as a report and as a sign? Then why don’t these two visions move you? If you can only become intimate with these two reports and signs, perhaps then there’d be the possibility of a conversion in you own case, you see, but the reality in your own case is that you’re unconverted. That’s the word about it. And you can’t piecemeal this consideration and expect that progressively you going to ‘hear’ and understand what’s really going on.

You’re immunized against these two reports and signs. You’re rather unintimate with them. Just as you are rather unintimate even with your own intimate. You are disassociated from reality, conditional unconditional. Your habit of living is a dramatization of dissociation, making light. It’s non-intimacy.

You are just carrying out your routines, you’ve ritualized your life. Therefore, it’s not a matter of just getting more serious, it’s a matter of this intimacy with both the conditional and the unconditional. This is what you will not allow.

I’m Here to Regenerate the Whole Thing

Adi Da Samraj – August 1988.


“There wasn’t sufficient evidence, sufficient response, sufficient clarity. So we’ve had to examine the whole matter step by step, stage by stage, starting from the most basic level of the beginning. But I think in this examination of all of this, with those who have been associated with me for so long, what is being made plain is that the gifts and the lessons have been already given. The only thing lacking here is this Joyous Response, this Inspired Response, that will regenerate all the things that were your responsibility before.

I’ve even said to you many times in these gatherings; it is difficult for me to imagine that there aren’t at least some in this world-wide gathering who are prepared for practicing stage six. If they’d only consider it, go through this process of recapitalization, reexamination of it all, and embrace their responsibility, the obligation. I would think that there would be some who are already prepared for practicing stage six. And certainly, others prepared for the various devotee stages.

I told you at the beginning when you all were just being students there, remember, I can’t imagine after all these years nobody has heard me“.

In the very beginning of my Teaching Work, I’ve communicated the Radical Consideration, the Radical Argument. You must respond to the degree that makes you capable of radical practice, or the Perfect Practice. So, I’ve had for many, many years consider with you that entire progress. But it’s not suppose to be something that takes you a thousand lifetimes. It’s not a piecemeal idealism, or idealistic practice, in which you basically fret over your impulses to be identified with the ordinary humanity, your conventional motivations as a human being.

That progressive practice is supposed to prepare you for the Radical Practice in its Ultimate form, the Perfect Practice.

The Perfect Practice is practiced in the context of the sixth stage of life. Therefore it inherently transcends the sixth stage of life, not eventually, inherently. It takes place in the context of the sixth stage of life but transcends it inherently. So do all the other stages of practice.

The listening and hearing process inherently transcends the first three stages of life, inherently does so, when you fully develop it. When it becomes true hearing, it inherently transcends the first three stages of life. It’s not that then there’s a long lot of stuff to do, as a hearing sadhana. It’s direct. The hearing sadhana inherently transcends the first three stages of life, so the work becomes complete, readily. This is why in the first edition of The Dawn Horse Testament have to define the hearing stage as a separate sort of period. Because it’s a most direct principle, that allows you to move on to the devotee stages.

I observed that you were finding loopholes, and not taking that process completely into account. I, therefore, I recommended some details that will help you avoid those loopholes.

Hearing, the sadhana based on hearing inherently transcends the first three stages of life, just as the sadhana based on seeing inherently transcends the fourth stage of life, and the fifth if necessary, and the sixth. The Way of the Heart transcends the psycho-biography of the ego, inherently.

Everything from the student response up to hearing is a process leading up to hearing. Everything up to hearing if your consideration, your time integrating yourself with this Radical Way. From the time of the confession of hearing, you become most fundamentally obliged, engaged with the Way of the Heart itself. You become capable of the Way of the Heart itself is capable, of transcending all of the egoic stages of life. So, from the time of hearing, you must do so, effectively, as described in each stage.

In that effective sense, we could say the Way of the Heart begins at the point of true hearing. It’s the first of the three great signs. The first is Hearing, the second is Seeing, and the third is Identification with the Witness-Position of Consciousness. Everything that proceeds hearing is a process whereby the individual becomes integrated with that process that inherently transcends eogity. This is why the Hearing Confession is so profound. It’s the cutter, the foundation that effectively moves through all the phycho-biography of egoity. From the time of that confession, you are obliged to that demonstration.

If you have heard me there is NO MORE dramatizing your egoic reluctance. You will have understood it all. You will have thoroughly observed it all, to the point of most fundamental understanding of self. Therefore this mechanism of refusal, of balking, resistance will have been thoroughly understood by you. Most fundamentally understood.

You must establish a culture on that foundation. You must demonstrate your response in the form of that culture. You must all develop an inspired and inspiring Way, and you must do it collectively, in the culture and the institution, in both the inner and outer temple. There must be these signs.

If there aren’t these signs then I say to you, you haven’t heard me”.


Why Aren’t There Any Enlightened Devotee’s?